Rough Sleepers

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham
Willy
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Joined: 22 Feb 2007 15:07
Location: Sydenham

Rough Sleepers

Post by Willy »

Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be a group of people living in the shelter by the bowls club hedge in Alexandria Recreation Ground?
Eagle
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Location: F Hill

Post by Eagle »

Guess someone should inform Bromley Council , probably agains bye laws.
bensonby
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Location: Kent

Post by bensonby »

Eagle wrote:Guess someone should inform Bromley Council , probably agains bye laws.
I don't think so...
Sydenham
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Joined: 2 Sep 2007 09:08
Location: Wells Park

Post by Sydenham »

To Bensonby - please go on and explain why "you don't think so". Don't leave us lurkers hanging. I'm interested.

James.
leenewham
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Post by leenewham »

I think it is. Being drunk in a public place is, sleeping rough is. At least that's what police have told me in the past (like when I was told to move on after falling asleep on a public bench).
Cllr John Getgood
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Joined: 8 Jan 2009 11:30
Location: Sydenham

Post by Cllr John Getgood »

Bromley Council have been informed. I htink the the encampment in the bushes had been destroyed. They still occasionally sleep in the shelter of the old pavilion. I also see them in Sydenham High Street. They ahave previously been moved on but of course that achieves nothing unless treatment or alternative provision is found. My information is that they have been difficult to help.
lambchops
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Location: Your mum's

Post by lambchops »

But where will the English cricket team stay after this test, now?
leenewham
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Post by leenewham »

har bloody har.

(actually it did make me laugh!)
bensonby
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Location: Kent

Post by bensonby »

Sydenham wrote:To Bensonby - please go on and explain why "you don't think so". Don't leave us lurkers hanging. I'm interested.

James.
Because I can't think of any byelaws - or statute laws for that matter - that make "sleeping rough" illegal.

There is the vagrancy act 1824 which makes begging in a street illegal (section 3) and there is the licensing act 1872 which makes being drunk in the street illegal (section 9) but as for merely "sleeping" I can't think of any...

As for byelaws, (as it is in a park) then I can only think of it being illegal if they erect a tent or simlar...(Bromley Parks Byelaws no.9)
Ruby
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007 17:31
Location: Sydenham

Post by Ruby »

If being drunk on the street is illegal how come it seems to always take place outside of the old 7-11 without them being told to stop by the police?

Every time I go past the same group of people are sitting on buckets with their cans of lager.

What sickens me is that one of them is a lady(very loose term for her) and is heavily pregnant.

I have also seen her drinking on various walls and benches around the kirkdale area without a care in the world for her poor, unfortunate unborn child.

I hope to God that she does get done by the police and social services intervene.
bensonby
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Location: Kent

Post by bensonby »

Ruby wrote:If being drunk on the street is illegal how come it seems to always take place outside of the old 7-11 without them being told to stop by the police?
Drinking in public isn't illegal - being drunk is.

More to the point, is it worth the police arresting every, most, or any drunk they see out and about? What would it achieve? And what harm are they generally doing?

Would you rather the police were in custody suites (or more likely, on hospital guards) with drunks....or would you rather they were responding to robberies, assaults, rapes, burglaries and so on.....

Or would you rather have a massive tax increase so they can do both?
Sydenham
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Location: Wells Park

Post by Sydenham »

It's not one or the other - a balance is usually best. What I prefer is that the balance is determined with some input from local people, rather than it being solely the choice of the police. Easier said than done though.

James.
bensonby
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Post by bensonby »

Sydenham wrote:It's not one or the other - a balance is usually best. What I prefer is that the balance is determined with some input from local people, rather than it being solely the choice of the police. Easier said than done though.

James.
yes, you have a point. However, generally, police won't arrest someone who is drunk in the street unless they are a real danger to themselves.....(e.g. staggering in the middle of the road &c.) hence the law is usually referred to as "drunk and incapable".

Of course, if someone is drunk and committing other offences - then they can (and will) be nicked for those...

I fail to see how "input from the local people" has much bearing on the matter....however, "ward panels" can, and do, set priorities for SNTs.
bigbadwolf
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Location: Forest Hill and Sydenham

Post by bigbadwolf »

Ruby wrote:If being drunk on the street is illegal how come it seems to always take place outside of the old 7-11 without them being told to stop by the police?

Every time I go past the same group of people are sitting on buckets with their cans of lager.

What sickens me is that one of them is a lady(very loose term for her) and is heavily pregnant.

I have also seen her drinking on various walls and benches around the kirkdale area without a care in the world for her poor, unfortunate unborn child.

I hope to God that she does get done by the police and social services intervene.

I think I know the woman you're talking about Ruby. I live off Dartmouth rd in Forest hill and she sits and gets drunk in the small park.

<edit>

Some people eh...
poppy
Posts: 574
Joined: 1 Sep 2007 20:03
Location: Sydenham

Post by poppy »

It is really upsetting about the pregnant woman. I am sure if you rang social services there is a good chance they would come out. Especially if she is regularly in the same place at the same time. That, poor, poor, baby! :(
Eagle
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Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Post by Eagle »

Yes the honest , law abiding , tax payers will of course pick up the bill.
Why have we not got another Van Diemen's Land
lambchops
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Joined: 11 Jan 2008 10:57
Location: Your mum's

Post by lambchops »

cos then another colonial settlement would beat you at sport!

i've got no problem with people sleeping on the street or in parks, but i do have a problem when they cause trouble.

are the people in the shelter causing any hassles?
bensonby
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Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Post by bensonby »

lambchops wrote:cos then another colonial settlement would beat you at sport!

i've got no problem with people sleeping on the street or in parks, but i do have a problem when they cause trouble.

are the people in the shelter causing any hassles?
careful Lambchops! You'll get the NIMBY brigade telling us how rough sleepers and street drinkers are trouble in themselves through their very existence...
Eagle
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Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Post by Eagle »

Do you not have a problem with pregnant female's drinking to excess. I thought that was the matter of discussion.
Also the park , or recreation ground , is presumably paid for and kept by taxes of locals to Bromley Council. They probably would not appreciate rough sleepers.
Would you like them in your garden???
bensonby
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Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Post by bensonby »

Eagle wrote:Do you not have a problem with pregnant female's drinking to excess. I thought that was the matter of discussion.
There is a more general theme of general moralising outrage that is pervasive on here that I'm having a poke at.
Also the park , or recreation ground , is presumably paid for and kept by taxes of locals to Bromley Council. They probably would not appreciate rough sleepers.
The park is a public place and has an implied permission for everyone to use it....

Would you like them in your garden???
No, but it's my property and I'll let in whoever I want and eject anyone I don't want in my garden...
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