Bell green the next stage

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham
Knighton
Posts: 146
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 18:50
Location: sydenham

Post by Knighton »

I write my own scripts thank you nasaroc.
Kindly do not misrepresent me.
I have at no time advocated a highway of any kind through Sydenham. In fact I suggested the pedestrianising of Sydenham Road.

As to support you will find, albeit in convoluted language, pretty well everyone else who has posted on this subject has finally had to admit their equal disgust at the state of properties in Sydenham Road.

It would be more honest if you advised us of the political party or organisation you clearly belong to. Try dealing with the issues instead of seeking to discredit anyone with a view which you cannot understand. It is an old and a dirty political tool which has no place here.

Funding is less of an issue than decision making. The South Circular scheme has already cost significant money. People were put out of their homes. Many of us in Sydenham had our properties blighted by the process of choosing between three routes (one straight through Sydenham which was rejected).

Property prices have never fully recovered. So long as the agreed scheme is not completed (and do not forget the preparatory work has been done, costs incurred, people put out of their homes, expensive modifications to public buildings carried out etc.) the potential risk of the issue of three alternative routes will continue to affect property values. So long as Sydenham Road looks like something out of the third world it will look like a cheap and easy option for such a road.

Sometimes you have to look at the whole picture. Focussing, anorak-like, on miniscule detail obscures it.
nasaroc
Posts: 602
Joined: 1 Oct 2004 12:41
Location: Sydenham

Post by nasaroc »

Knighton - please answer the two questions. How much support can you muster for your two major proposals and how are we going to pay for them?

Saying that lower Sydenham Road is in a poor state isn't what I asked. I'd agree with you that it IS in a pretty sorry state. I asked how many people supported your scheme for a rebuild of lower Sydenham Road and how are we going to pay for it? If you are advocating the building of a huge road in Sydenham or Forest Hill, how much support do you have for your proposal and how do you intend to pay for it?

Call me an anorak if you will but these simply aren't anorak questions. They are the first questions anyone is going to ask before they take your suggestions seriously.

At the moment I would say that the answer to the first question is "nobody" and to the second question "I haven't any idea".

But surprise us.
Knighton
Posts: 146
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 18:50
Location: sydenham

Post by Knighton »

I could give you any answer I chose. If you want to test the water go ahead. A forum such as this has no capacity for demonstrating public support or anything else. It is purely a forum.

Once more you have chosen deliberately, since this has already been pointed out to you, to misrepresent what I have proposed. I have at no time suggested driving a major road through Sydenham. What part of that do you fail to understand.

When did you stop beating your wife?

Clearly you have an agenda.
nasaroc
Posts: 602
Joined: 1 Oct 2004 12:41
Location: Sydenham

Post by nasaroc »

You are advocating knocking down parts of Lower Sydenham and rebuilding them and widening the south circular. How much support do you have for these proposals and who is going to pay for them?
Wispy Wonder
Posts: 137
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 22:13
Location: Sydenham

Post by Wispy Wonder »

I really don't believe some of what I am reading here!

Do the likes of Knighton not realise that you cannot demolish/build your way to a prosperous high street? They tried that in the 60's and 70's, blighting countless towns and suburbs with hideous redevelopment. Of course, they all seemed a good idea at the time, properly planned, new roads, civic sqaures, car parking, pedestrianisation blah blah blah......... The underlying problems were never identified or addressed, so the original problems returned - newer buildings but a squalid shopping environment.....(Has Knighton been to Catford lately?)

In contrast, take a look at Blackheath, East Dulwich, or even Crystal Palace. Yhey have developed organically - the original buildings have been retained, giving these areas a quirky individualism that attracts shoppers. Sydenham can do the same. It has some great buildings in the high street that simply need tarting up.

And as for the Sydenham Society... I'm not a member but appreciate it's efforts to make this a better place to live. If anyone does think its undemocratic and unrepresentative - JOIN - have your say!


W. Wonder
Knighton
Posts: 146
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 18:50
Location: sydenham

Post by Knighton »

It is the opinion I heard expressed on an everyday basis.
Why should we support them (the shops in Sydenham) all they sell is rubbish. You can't buy anything there.
The best thing they could do is drop a bomb on the place


Just a sample of what is being said. Representative? The people of Sydenham vote... with their feet. Rather than shop in Sydenham Road they jump in the car and drive to Beckenham or Bromley. Thousands of people live within a minute's walk of Sydenham Road. Do they shop there? No.

Why do shopkeepers want the cars they so revile to stop to shop? Because local people know they only sell overpriced junk. The shops depend, therefore, on passers by who have no knowledge of their worth. It reminds me of a certain Blackpool hotelier who spent nothing on his property. The beds were dirty and damp. The breakfasts were inedible. Rather than invest in his business he found it cheaper to advertise and bring in new customers. 10,000,000 people visit Blackpool each season. Who needs repeat business?

Eventually he would find that the world does not owe him a living and Sydenham Road traders need to learn that same lesson. It is not the buildings so much as the businesses that operate in them (with one or two notable exeptions as has been said before). Use us or lose us they say. Is that a promise?

As I said before... You have to see the picture as a whole. Quibbling over whether one sentence can be demolished or setting out to undermine the credibility of an opponent are the tools of the politicians and spinmasters. Spinmaster is another word for deceiver or liar.

Which party nasaroc and when did you stop beating your wife?

Meanwhile the money for the maintaining and improving the South Circular is the responsibility of Central Government since this is a trunk route. The lack of promised investment means that Sydenham Road (not funded as a trunk route) carries the burden. How green is that?

Pop over to Catford and note the land set aside for the dual carriageway alongside Lawrence House. Look at the entrance to the underground car park which had to be redesigned to accomodate the promised road. Look across the road and note the triangle set aside for the road. Drive around the one-way system and note the row of houses which were compulsorily purchased to make space for the dual carriagway and which have now been "let".

Pretending the motor car is a hallucination will not remove it and it is criminal irresponsiblity to fail to cater properly for it. Stationary traffic generates far more pollution than moving traffic. It wastes fuel and costs us all a fortune. The savings on this waste, alone, would make the improvements to the South Circular a cost effective project.

As I said before. Sydenham Road is not a trunk road. It is not up to the job of trying to be one at the same time as acting as a shopping precinct.

If you cannot see how blinkered opposition to a road ,which would take the traffic away from this road, is them I am sorry for you. You deserve the rundown ramshackel fume ridden hovel you get.
nasaroc
Posts: 602
Joined: 1 Oct 2004 12:41
Location: Sydenham

Post by nasaroc »

Not going to answer the questions Knighton? Never mind. Constantly repeating that there are many things wrong with Sydenham (which almost everyone would agree with) isn't enough. Putting sensible ideas which will gain public support and can be paid for is what matters.

I can only describe the last two contributions from our friend as sheer rants.

Perhaps Knighton, we can turn to your latest far-fetched scheme to pedestrianise the area between Mayow Road and Newlands Park. Could I ask the question which must have jumped immediately into most sane people's minds when they read this - what do you with the thousands of cars which plough up and down Sydenham Road every hour? No doubt you'll dismiss this as an irrelevant quibble which a great thinker like yourself shouldn't have to bother with. But indulge me. Or do these vehicles merely divert to join the four-lane highway you are proposing for Forest Hill!?!
Knighton
Posts: 146
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 18:50
Location: sydenham

Post by Knighton »

already answered


---------------
These thread has got a little overheated and doesn't seem to be going anwhere. So I closed it and hived off the ditties to the new thread "Song for Sydenham" in Town Cafe. Can we keep that light and amusing chaps & chappesses?

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