What’s going on at x?

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham

Moderator: frenzarin

JMLF
Posts: 588
Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

What’s going on at x?

Post by JMLF » 9 Oct 2019 14:39

Just being a bit of a nosey parker to be honest but noticed 3 different places having some renovations of sorts and wondered if anyone knew what was happening. Guess could just be the owner jazzing it up to try and rent out rather than someone actively taking over a unit...

1. Next to Zigghys Cafe

2. Next to Bottlecave

3. The slightly odd semi detached house like building between Pedder and Venner Road Hall

JMLF
Posts: 588
Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by JMLF » 13 Oct 2019 17:20

And now some new windows/works being done inside the former Calabash of culture... hopefully some of these places have someone actively moving in?! (Rather than the landlord just doing it up a bit to make it a more attractive but nothing doing - which would still be some nice forward progress)

RJM
Posts: 108
Joined: 2 Jan 2016 15:30
Location: Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by RJM » 13 Oct 2019 19:48

I know nothing about any of these, but it would be great to fill some of the empty spaces! I hope it's not just the landlords tarting them up a bit, or if it is then it succeeds as a strategy.

monkeyarms
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Jul 2015 14:54
Location: Tredown

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by monkeyarms » 13 Oct 2019 20:37

Cherry and Ice seems to be having one of its periodic mystery closures... hope nothing serious

SydenhamOwl
Posts: 96
Joined: 20 Jan 2017 15:26
Location: Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by SydenhamOwl » 20 Oct 2019 11:17

There is a sign up in the shop next to Trattoria Rafaelle but can’t tell if it’s an old sign from a what it was a long time ago (it looks quite old). The sign says something like Childs Estates (ie an estate agent).

KEVD
Posts: 93
Joined: 19 Feb 2012 11:31
Location: Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by KEVD » 20 Oct 2019 13:01

That’s sign belonged to a shop that was there before.

angela53
Posts: 128
Joined: 18 Aug 2009 21:38
Location: london

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by angela53 » 24 Oct 2019 11:34

"Cherry and Ice seems to be having one of its periodic mystery closures... hope nothing serious"

Looks abandoned to me - lots of post lying on the floor

El Cid
Posts: 91
Joined: 19 Feb 2015 18:49
Location: Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by El Cid » 24 Oct 2019 14:44

I wouldn't be surprised if Cherry and Ice has closed for good. It was closed for a very long period earlier in the year for a refurb, but I have to be honest and say that it didn't look much different when it reopened. I've always felt that it's never been sure what it wants to be. The ice creams are okay, but nothing special, and the food offered is eclectic. It would be a shame to see it disappear, as it has a certain quirkiness about it. However, I suspect the owner of Cherry and Ice hasn't been able to turn a profit, which isn't surprising given the high rents and business rates. Various evenings - poetry, music, debates etc - have been tried to increase business, but it's always sounded a bit desperate. In the last year, we've seen Calabash of Culture, Shirin, and the waffle place up Kirkdale close. And in Forest Hill, Crystal Palace and East Dulwich a number of cafes and restaurants have gone by the wayside. The truth is the food business is a tough one to survive in. But if you have a strong identity, produce quality products, and provide a good service, you can succeed, as Trattoria Rafaelle, Cobbs Corner, and The Greyhound prove.

monkeyarms
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Jul 2015 14:54
Location: Tredown

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by monkeyarms » 24 Oct 2019 15:04

If so that would be a big shame. I think it's a pity there isn't more communication between business owners and their customers - especially if things aren't going well. A lot of parents with young kids really appreciate Cherry & Ice being there, and if they realised it really was a case of 'use it or lose it', they would use it. Once or twice I thought about organising an event there, and I think with the right kind of events programme it could really have made a go of an evening existence: I felt it tried to do the 'bar in the evening' thing way too half-heartedly.

Anyway, I won't start talking about it in the past tense quite yet... fingers crossed...

coll
Posts: 186
Joined: 17 Oct 2007 15:55
Location: sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by coll » 24 Oct 2019 15:27

Today I noticed that the former Calabash of Culture has had the old shopfront knocked out and modern glass windows put in. Is this not part of the conservation area? It was a nice old shop front and now gone. Anyone know what's going in there?

JMLF
Posts: 588
Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by JMLF » 24 Oct 2019 17:48

Unfortunately I also think maybe it’s done - 5 weeks or so since it was last open and no responses when I’ve emailed/tweeted them. Always really enjoyed William’s chat, the cakes and they did some of the best coffee in sydenham in my opinion. Real shame if it is finished as the inside looked a lot better with a lick of paint, new shop sign, a dedicated art art area and perhaps not well known but a little garden out back. Slightly odd shape but actually a really good unit with outdoor space.

The “conservation area” is a very strange one as there are plenty of examples of things going up which in my mind clearly don’t fit whatever the “area” is meant to represent or whatever “rules” it has. Recent examples: dragonfly yoga’s sign, cherry and ice’s recently new sign and the wall on station approach which has two new frames for TFL info / advertising / other bolted to it (this was the wall of the failed mural project which essentially came to an end due to the “conservation area” and the council stating they would be the ones that would choose what would be deemed appropriate - not something picked by the public etc.

If you can’t tell I think the “conservation area” doesn’t really exist and only comes into play when the powers that be feel strongly enough about something and then use it as they wish. We don’t live in some idyllic village with things of true historical value and the need for things to “Keep in line” with the cottages, almshouses and old inns/shops 🤔🤦‍♂️😂

stuart
Posts: 3215
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 10:13
Location: Lawrie Park
Contact:

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by stuart » 25 Oct 2019 10:03

JMLF wrote:
24 Oct 2019 17:48
If you can’t tell I think the “conservation area” doesn’t really exist and only comes into play when the powers that be feel strongly enough about something and then use it as they wish. We don’t live in some idyllic village with things of true historical value and the need for things to “Keep in line” with the cottages, almshouses and old inns/shops 🤔🤦‍♂️😂
The "Conservation Area" came into being to help protect the remains of the The Greyhound. Of course it wouldn't have withstood legal objection if it only included the pub - so the rest of the high street and more was included. There was little local objection at the time as it seemed any cost would be worth the price.

I still agree notwithstanding the nonsenses you highlight. I guess there is no way to 'de-conserve' and it would be politically impossible anyway. The point you make is sound - if we are to have one then it should be applied (or not applied) consistently. That would, in the past, been the natural domain of the Sydenham Society. The problem is, of recent years, SydSoc has been evolving into a more partisan organisation - hence less able to reflect the views of the broader community.

We are a bit stuck there. [BTW that is an explanation and not an invitation to another anti-SydSoc rant which will only alienate them even more and not get us anywhere].

Stuart

JGD
Posts: 615
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by JGD » 25 Oct 2019 14:27

stuart wrote:
25 Oct 2019 10:03
... That would, in the past, been the natural domain of the Sydenham Society. The problem is, of recent years, SydSoc has been evolving into a more partisan organisation - hence less able to reflect the views of the broader community.

We are a bit stuck there. [BTW that is an explanation and not an invitation to another anti-SydSoc rant which will only alienate them even more and not get us anywhere].

Stuart
Not an anti-SydSoc rant.

SydSoc has engaged in further aggressively partisan and dis-orientated activity outside Sydenham.

Following their abysmal failure of their obtaining a Local Listing without local consultation for the gas-holders by bending the rules and the subsequent demolition, SydSoc have returned to haunt Forest Hill.

SydSoc have submitted an application to Lewisham council for an order making The All Inn Pub an Asset of Community Value. All based on the tosh that is their well trodden path of we can do what we like where we like and on an assumed premise that Forest Hill was "historically" part of Sydenham. No local consultation of course and certainly not with FoHSoc and with an allusion to having been "invited to do so" by an as yet un-named group of anonymous alleged Perry Vale residents. The announcement was not well received at FoHSoc's AGM last week.

Whilst the proprietors have been formally notified of the application they have also been officially warned that they are not permitted to engage in the decision making process.

Coupled with the addition of the same pub in a new group of properties proposed for addition to the as yet unapproved Local Listings from Lewisham council, it is to be wondered if the owners of that property are not beginning to feel besieged by a secretive and targeted campaign with unspecified objectives, conducted anonymously and without reference directly to them.

See - said it wasn't a rant.

TredownMan
Posts: 157
Joined: 28 Sep 2017 15:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by TredownMan » 25 Oct 2019 18:49

I love this idea that's cropped up that the gasholders were about to become some underground heat green energy site, until the head of SGN, who is now cast as the villain of the piece, nixed it. Or something... https://twitter.com/SydenhamSociety/sta ... 18272?s=20

alywin
Posts: 714
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 12:33
Location: Penge side of Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by alywin » 28 Oct 2019 11:52

JGD wrote:
25 Oct 2019 14:27
See - said it wasn't a rant.
Then what is? :?

JGD
Posts: 615
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by JGD » 28 Oct 2019 19:09

:) :) :)

syenhamboy
Posts: 92
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 03:33

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by syenhamboy » 30 Oct 2019 08:58

coll wrote:
24 Oct 2019 15:27
Today I noticed that the former Calabash of Culture has had the old shopfront knocked out and modern glass windows put in. Is this not part of the conservation area? It was a nice old shop front and now gone. Anyone know what's going in there?
Lots going on inside here this morning.

prince
Posts: 227
Joined: 23 Mar 2016 17:57
Location: London

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by prince » 30 Oct 2019 20:28

I Understand that the landlord has put up the rent at cherry and ice to an unaffordable level. I noticed today that everything except fixtures and fittings has been removed so it seems sadly unlikely that it will reopen.

On more positive news, in terms of investment, I understand that the unit next to bottlecave is going to be an estate agents and the old Calabash a hairdressers.

Interesting neither of the above have planning consent for change of use and the new shop front at calabash does not have planning permission.

I see that dragon fly has installed a very ugly hanging sign on their premises to go with their massive fascia sign - again neither have advertising consent.

Don’t get me wrong I support this new investment but I am seriously wondering why the Council has bothered to designate major parts of the town centre as a Conservation Area when it seems to do very little, if anything, to enforce.

Where the Council does seem to have taken some action and got Dilz and and tops and tails to submit retrospective planning applications for their shop fronts, they do not seem to have followed this up with enforcement action.

SydenhamOwl
Posts: 96
Joined: 20 Jan 2017 15:26
Location: Sydenham

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by SydenhamOwl » 31 Oct 2019 11:38

prince wrote:
30 Oct 2019 20:28
I Understand that the landlord has put up the rent at cherry and ice to an unaffordable level. I noticed today that everything except fixtures and fittings has been removed so it seems sadly unlikely that it will reopen.

On more positive news, in terms of investment, I understand that the unit next to bottlecave is going to be an estate agents and the old Calabash a hairdressers.

Interesting neither of the above have planning consent for change of use and the new shop front at calabash does not have planning permission.

I see that dragon fly has installed a very ugly hanging sign on their premises to go with their massive fascia sign - again neither have advertising consent.

Don’t get me wrong I support this new investment but I am seriously wondering why the Council has bothered to designate major parts of the town centre as a Conservation Area when it seems to do very little, if anything, to enforce.

Where the Council does seem to have taken some action and got Dilz and and tops and tails to submit retrospective planning applications for their shop fronts, they do not seem to have followed this up with enforcement action.
A real shame to see Cherry and Ice go. One of my favourites.

An estate agent and a hairdresser you say. The High Street isn't exactly short of those!

angela53
Posts: 128
Joined: 18 Aug 2009 21:38
Location: london

Re: What’s going on at x?

Post by angela53 » 31 Oct 2019 12:04

Such a shame, however better than the units lying empty

Post Reply