Zanzibar Licence Review

[biscuitman1978]

Agenda with background papers now online -

http://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/ ... 3265&Ver=4

Thank you to those residents who provided statements to the police giving examples of the anti-social behaviour.

Look forward to seeing residents at the Licensing Committee next Wednesday at 7.15pm where I will be supporting residents in their call for an end to the 5am late night licence.

Thanks to all those who have leafleted the area to inform people that the licence review will take place tomorrow (19 Mar) at a meeting of Lewisham Council's Licensing Committee.

If you've been affected by the anti-social behaviour associated with Zanzibar please do attend the meeting if you can.

[bensonby]

What happened at the meeting?

[biscuitman1978]

The committee's formal decision will be published in the next few days but, in short, it resolved to:
- Limit the operating hours so that the club must close at 0200
- To impose most, though not all, of the additional conditions proposed by the police

We now need to wait to see whether the licensee appeals. On the basis that he might, it would be helpful if local people could keep a record of any further anti-social behaviour and/or nuisance arising from activity at the club, reporting it to the police and the Council's environmental health team.

[marymck]

So people will still be woken in the early hours. I think that was a wasted opportunity to reclaim the night for local residents. What was the reasoning behind letting them carry on? Will it get reviewed in six months or so?

Luckily I don't live within earshot! I couldn't survive with such little sleep.

[Annie.]

2AM!

Don't these people have a job to go to the next day?
Even 2AM is far to late, if it has to stay as drinking/dancing establishment it should close at 11PM, by the time the stragglers wander off it will be at least 12ish.

It's not fair on the locals to have to put up with this, I hope this was not a lost opportunity.
Did Chris Best agree with the 2AM finish?

[Eagle]

I am in total agreement with Annie. 2am far too late. That would ,mean loud disturbances for the neighbours from 2 to 3 am. Unacceptable. We all need our sleep undisturbed.

11pm should be fine

If these people have not gor jobs one wonders how they can afford such an exotic venue.

If Council insist on 2am I suggest committee members me made to move adjacent to the so called nightclub for 3 months or so.

[sydenhamgardener2]

The barrister Zanzibar used is certainly an interesting character...

http://www.solicitorsfromhell.net/index ... 85&Itemid=

[sydenhamgardener2]

If anyone is interested the decision to restrict hours until 2am at the weekends was almost unanimous. The only dissenting councillor was the Lib Dem mayoral candidate Duwayne Brooks who voted for Zanzibar to remain open until 5am for reasons best known unto himself. Something to keep in mind when the elections come round.

[Eagle]

Why oh why are the Councillors putting the interests of big business and clients who mostly come from outside the area, against hardworking local folk

Very perverse.

I suggest local people remember this when the next Local Elections come up.

[gillyjp]

I was at the license review meeting last night and I think contibutors to this forum will already know my views on this club, as a near neighbour and a family who have suffered much from the anti social behaviour of this club.

As has been pointed out before, this club relied on its 5.00am license since, when all the other clubs in nearby areas close at 2.00am, the party revellers then make their way over to the Zanzibar club for more partying until 5.00am. That won’t now happen and the area won’t be flooded with hoardes of excitable party goers trying to get in the club at some ungodly hour. Although it was a little disappointing that the late night opening wasn’t cut further, say to 11.00am, that was never in the Licensing Seargent’s recommendations and there was a reason for that. We have to bow to his experience in these matters in being able to be seen as fair and balanced in his recommendations. Ask for too much and that could be seen as lacking in impartiality and not taking into account the owners stated business needs to make a profit and I quote: ‘the late licence is the lifeblood of my business’. It was, sadly in my opinion, a lost opportunity but I understand where Jim Abbott was coming from in his recommendations.

That said, the Zanzibar’s legal representative tried repeatedly to make it look as if the police and the Council were to blame that no arrests had been made which could be directly attributable to the club and that the Council did not clear up the streets or do anything to stop the illegal parking. Despicably attempting to gain mileage, if you will, out of the savage cuts in resources for both the police and the local council. This was a deliberate ploy to sideline the real reason we were all there which was to highlight to the Committee the effect that the anti social behaviour emanating from this club, has on it’s immediate and wider neighbours. I think the Licensing Committee were smart enough to see through this.

I would like to personally thank Jim Abbott and his team for all the hard work and what must have been painstaking effort to present this case to the Committee for review, notwithstanding the cuts in resources as mentioned above.

[Chris Best]

Just to be clear the Licensing Committee supported the recommendations from the police - which was for a reduction in operating hours on Thursday – Saturday until 2am and on Sunday to Wednesday to midnight. The Committee also supported the police in their recommendations that licensable activity end 30 minutes before the closing time so 1.30am on the weekends and 11.30pm in the week, plus a number of other conditions that will be written up in the next few days.

Everyone was wanting quiet dispersal and an end to the illegal activity of jerk chicken traders, parking on the pavement, urination, sex in the garden, fights, noise nuisance etc. A long evening and a big thank you to the four residents called by the police to support their witness statements.

In the exchange between his barrister (Simon Walsh) John Wright said that his current business model was a nighclub - based on the opening hours of 11.00 – 05.30 Thursday - Saturday and 11.00 – 04.30 Sunday – Wednesday although in practice only operating for 14 hours on a weekend. Reference was made to a new business model so we wait to see.

[leenewham]

This seems like good news overall.

Duwayne Brooks has done this before where I used to live in Brockley and blatantly lied about activities there (I lived above it and saw what was going on every single day). He seems to be a liability and I'm not sure what planet he's on. Is he on the licensing committee? If so, how long has he been on it? Because he went to parties and commented on the situation in Brockley, which was about a shop operating as a pub and supplying alcohol to street drinkers while it's license was under review.

[Eagle]

If most locals happy with 2am , then so am I .

Although it is surely tough on the residents , who , when they moved there were in the vicinity of a cultured department store , which , I do not believe , had any neighbourhood issues.

[marymck]

Much more sensible to stop serving alcohol half an hour before closing time. And if the neighbours are happy, then that's the most important thing.

Hopefully this has been a shot across the bows that the owner will heed.

[gillyjp]

Well let's just say it is a step in the right direction. A battle has been won - but not yet the war. I'm sure this will run and run but it was obvious to all in that meeting that the issues raised were genuine and if the club did not exist in that locality we would not have the appalling anti social behaviour.

[Annie.]

I don't think the "shot across the bows" will work Mary,
The person who runs it hasn't bothered to do much he was asked to in the last 3 years I believe.

I have witnessed the antisocial behaviour myself, it should be shut down and opened up as something useful for the residents of Sydenham.

I don't live in Sydenham anymore, however I still have an affection for the area after living there for 37 yrs.

[duwaynebrooks]

Dear all,

May I just say thank you to @davidkernohan for alerting me to this blog.

The reason for voting against is because of the legal advice given. I sympathize with all the residents who have suffered due to the early morning opening of this club. The fact is when they go to Court they are more likely to win than lose their appeal.

I made a suggestion that we impose a condition forcing the club owner to employ extra staff to patrol the roads close by the club to ensure the issues mentioned were tackled. The advice was this was not enforceable.

I also made the suggestion we reduce the opening hours down to 4am as a gradual start to eventually reduce them down to 2am if the issues complained about continued. I was out voted.

To reduce the club hours down to 2am in one huge jump will have massive financial implications for the club. As advised, this alone will be a huge advantage at their appeal. We were also advised the club is not responsible for patrons who walk 100m away and urinate in gardens.

I am always happy to explain my actions by email or over the phone but preferably face to face. I am a people's person not someone who hides away when explanations are needed. I would hope before anyone decides to call me a liar, they obtain all the facts first and not rely on a one sided report on an event.

My number is 0208-314-3058 and email duwayne.brooks@lewisham.gov.uk

Take care.

Duwayne

[sydenhamgardener2]

Hello Duwayne,

Welcome to the forums.

It may be the case that the club owners are not legally liable for the behaviour of their patrons when they leave the club but the fact remains that the only reason we have quite extreme levels of antisocial behaviour in the area is because of the club. If it wasn't open until 5am then we would not have the problems with noise, litter, public urination, parking, illegal food stalls, motor bike racing and dangerous drunk driving.

Reducing the opening hours to 4am would have little effect in mitigating the antisocial behaviour in my view. The current club staff employed to manage parking and the door seem to be ineffective at managing the patrons poor behaviour so there is no reason to suggest that more of them would make a difference.

I appreciate that this will cause financial problems for the club but the current business model is extremely anti-social and if he cannot make money without causing misery to local residents then Mr Wright should find a new business model or sell the club on to someone else.

Finally I'd like to point out that if you intend to try for election as mayor of Lewisham you are displaying a very poor grasp of politics. The vast majority of people in the local area are pleased that Zanzibar has had its opening hours cut and they all have votes. None of which are likely to go to you if you continue to support anti-social businesses over residents.

[duwaynebrooks]

Hi

And thank you for your welcome.

The point I'm making is this.

I can easily say what everyone wants to hear by being populist or I can be honest and take the wrath.

Following the committee meeting the situation is this. Zanzibar will naturally appeal the decision. Until that appeal is heard, they can continue to operate as normal.

The advice is they are more likely to win than lose the appeal.

If they do, it would be in everyone's interest to write letters of complaints to the club (signed for) whenever they experience ASB in prep for the next review hearing.

Hope that helps.

Duwayne

[michael]

Duwayne,
I think Zanzibar would be pretty foolish to appeal the decision, and the other Zanzibar thread suggests that they recognise the problems they have caused. See Project Zanzibar–creating a venue that’s right for Sydenham

I am very excited about a new project that Louise Brooks and I are partnering on – a review of the Zanzibar business model. We’re working with John Wright, the owner.

Our work will evolve over the next weeks/months – as we research, consult and of course take into account the licensing discussions – but I wanted to share our current objectives:
- To bring the venue back into use – by that we mean making best use of it throughout the week, in the day and evenings
- Removing the current antisocial elements that have been so distressing for local residents
- Build an exciting programme of activities and events that attract local people – and promotes local talent
- Build a strong business that benefits from local support, and in turn contributes to the local economy

The review of the business model is evidence that this club could be profitable with a different business model that does not need to remain open until 5am. As has been said, the current business model is wrong for the location and I'm sure you read through the number of complaints brought to the attention of police relating to badly handled situations inside and outside the club.

Appealing the decision would demonstrate that they have no plans to change their business model or work with the local community, instead they would continue to be a blight on their neighbours. But I think that any appeal would confirm the decision of the licensing committee.

I find it is very rare for councillors to stand up to defend their decisions on planning or licensing committees. I'm pleased you are willing to share your thoughts, but I hope you also accept that your fellow committee members took the right decision for local people and for public safety.